ebay.in employees and a group of scamsters cheating us

[avtechmart]

While I am only aware of such incidents since July 2010. I am positive that such nexus exist for long and is still progressing. This what happened recently (as posted on several other threads:

While travelling, my good old PDA phone developed glitch (backlight went off) and I started looking for a replacement on ebay since 1st week of July. I came across listings from a new member "genuine.buy" who registered on ebay on 28th June 2010. I saw him listing 3 used items - 1 SE x10, 1 Nokia N900 and 1 iPhone 3GS. I was surprised that he is selling all these phones at the least price on ebay and that to like new with bill and warranty.

I got tempted to buy the Nokia N900 with bill as per the below listing:
http://cgi.ebay.in/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250662406196#ht_971wt_1137

As the listing suggest, I got most of my questions answered, and as this was the cheapest I was getting this phone for and as I was quite desperate for a replacement of my phone, I went for the purchase, paid with paisapay as I knew of the guarantee which comes with paisapay and ebay in case I get cheated by this new seller.

However, what followed was something I still could not believe. Please go through this thread below for the details of what me, "shubraj" and "rajeshposwal" went through:
http://forums.ebay.in/thread.jspa?threadID=500007638&tstart=0&mod=1283109060885

Despite writing this incidence and all the updates since 17th July 2010 to BOTH Trust and Safety team and Paisapay, registering for a SNAD case on 17th July 2010 (ebay closed this case asking to go for paisapay refund on 23rd July 2010), ebay chose to award the seller the money for an incorrect shipping info provided to both me an "shubraj"

"rajeshposwal" was lured to do out of ebay bank transfer and has since written to ebay Trust and Safety team several times only to get promises of action or being ignored completely (like me).

Paisapay claim officer "ANIKET" took precisely another 30 days only to close both mine and Shubraj's case on 22nd August 2010 giving the same reason that he has received the delivery proof and has validated it.

My straight questions to ebay:

1. How could not they react to the recorded phone calls of 17th morning where the seller himself called from the registered mobile number on ebay and claimed to be a champion in these fraud? They neither gave reason for not considering those proofs nor they assured any protection against such abusive and threatening seller despite him directly giving a threat of sending goons to my place the same day. I feel such issues are to be dealt with a sense of urgency and eBay neither showed such urgency nor they took any action against the seller.

2. The seller registered with FAKE LOCATION and kept RELISTING SOLD ITEMS and later registered with another ID "bappa.sales" and listed the SAME ITEMS claiming to be from another location and changing his mobile number after the threatening calls he made to me on 17th July 2010

3. It was established on 16th July 2010 that the seller had posted INCORRECT shipping info and accordingly reported to ebay both on SNAD and Trust and Safety team. Why could not ebay see anything wrong in that?

4. I informed all these facts to "ANIKET" around 24th July 2010 and he promised to get back to me after discussing with his seniors (he initially kept arguing with me, doubting me of how I was able to know when the seller register and how I got hold of "prabhathkp" who left a positive feedback after BUYING THE SAME PRODUCT on 13th July 2010.

5. prabhathkp informed that he requested the seller to cancel the transaction and that he agreed to do so and hence has giving a positive feedback to him (I still do not know if he got his money back). This was also informed to ANIKET.

6. I informed ANIKET the incident of "rajeshposwal" who both the SAME SE xperia x10 which shubraj bought through paisapay around the same time (I wasn't aware of shubraj but knew from seller's item list that he sold this x10 on 10th July to someone)

7. Why could not ebay call the courier company once in these 30 days me and Shubraj kept following up with ebay and Trust and Safety team through phone and emails?

8. Despite informing ANIKET to request for the IMEI number of the phones from the seller if he claims to have shipped a valid phone with BILL, why could not he do the same??

9. Why could not ANIKET request the seller to obtain a duplicate bill of those phones from the original seller?

10. As you could see, anyone could establish that this seller registered on ebay only to commit fraud and scam and that he kept on relisting the same sold item (it is highly uncertain that he could have multiples of these used phones)

If such is the situation, as it is established, paisapay is unable to save you despite us INVESTIGATING so much in these 2 months and communicating the same to the ebay teams across the board and requesting escalation multiple times.

I had 2 incidents where I could not get my money back, however this straight forward incident of complete fraud has never been observed by me on ebay in the last 8 years!

I appreciate your comments as I NEVER come across such CONFIDENT SCAMMER who knows well how to fool us and run with our money. He might be selling different type of products, registering with different ids claiming from different locations. As informed by RAJESH POSWAL, this looks to be a GROUP of SCAMMERS who registered on ebay with sole purpose of cheating customers and run with their money.

[real.phoenix]

hmmm...

[mobile-phones-etc]

@pranshudubey,
this is what I suggest to you, since eBay as well has decided in buyers favor.

If you have paid through Credit Card. Call your CC issuer and raise the charge back. They will work in your favor and in maximum 21 days it will be approved.

if you have paid through Bank Transfer, contact me i will suggest you the way to go about it. buy genuine mobiles at unbeatable price.
http://stores.shop.ebay.in/Mobile-Phones-ETC

Change is state of mind..but inevitable.

[mobile-phones-etc]

sorry mistyped - read buyer as seller in the first line, second last word. buy genuine mobiles at unbeatable price.
http://stores.shop.ebay.in/Mobile-Phones-ETC

Change is state of mind..but inevitable.

[avtechmart]

@mobile-phones-etc

I could not have let this amount go without any DISPUTE as it is a straight forward case of cheating and fraud. I have already raised the charge back, however being on this community for more than 8 years now, never knew that such Frauds exist.

I really wish to protect the community before it gets too late for us. Many of us trust these cheaters and either do a wire transfer or pay through out bank account believing to be protected by paisapay. However it is established now that paisapay is as good as the claim officer is. If he do not believe you or is unhelpful in noting SO MANY VALID points, and reward these cheaters money and update on ebay that I received the item when it was NEVER SHIPPED is a BIG SHAME ON US and EBAY! These people are MANIPULATING and FABRICATING our records just for the heck of it without confirming with the customer.

Reputed sellers like you may also get compromised if such jerks flourish on ebay. Rajesh Poswal paid through wire transfer and even police is not helping him in recovering the money as the account used to get the money by this seller is closed immediately after the seller took out the money (he was on phone while the transfer occur and withdrew the money instantaneously).

We need to work together to let ebay know that they can not have your way for no apparent reason.

[c153niyam]

so whats this deal with chargeback? Does tat mean anyone and everyone can start buying and then just do a chargeback and they get their funds back and keep the purchased item too????
wouldn't that lead to total chaos and anarchy??????

[avtechmart]

@c153niyam

That was exactly the reason I didn't request for a charge back on the last two disputes as I wanted ebay to address the concerns.

Last transaction in March/April when I returned the item based on seller's recommendation (GEB - i2c). I never go the refund till date (against assurance by seller that I will get in 15 days). I am still trying to escalate the matter and get the refund for the returned item.

This time, despite reporting repeatedly to ebay about this seller registered to commit fraud, ebay didnt do anything to fix the issues and instead rewarded him money on fake dispatch proof which all knows are incorrect.

Due to the above reasons, I was force to contact the bank to get an immediate charge back. What else could we do to protect our money? I will seek further compensation through the consumer court once I get the cyber cell of CBI trace this seller and book him while trying to recover the money he took from us.

This has been by far the most harassing episode for 2 months when I keep contacting ebay and other buyers to understand the misdeeds of this seller after he abused and threatened on the phone. Ebay has been least helpful despite providing all the facts with proof to them.

[avtechmart]

@c153niyam

To add to our discussion on charge back and your valid concerns, charge backs work the same way as any insurance or in our situation paisapay/paypal protection and ebay guarantee program.

Merchant establishments like ebay.in paisapay are responsible for resolving our "disputes" and its only when they accede to false claims from sellers we can go for a charge back when we CAN PROVE that the transaction was invalid.

Below are the three categories we could go for a charge back:

1. You lost the card and it gets used by someone and you PROVE to the bank that you never did that transaction and got a product in return

2. You got charged more than once for the same transaction

3. You paid for the item and never got it delivered (like in this situation)

Banks will investigate the claim just like ebay to accept or reject the claim. Like in ebay, you are responsible to present your argument to the bank when merchants like ebay could not resolve your concerns.

When ebay contest to such charge backs, they had to present all the proofs in hand (like the dispatch and delivery slips provided by seller in this case) and that way we get those documents which otherwise ebay keeps hidden and can easily prove ebay guilty of "validating" such FALSE documents and NOT DOING their JOB. Eventually we should seek further compensation for the harassment (sleepless nights since 17th July and the trauma this seller gave you by calling, abusing and threatening you - ebay could not do anything to prevent such abuse of platform).

Hope that clarifies further and helps us in coping with such situation.

Gist of the matter - BOTH buyer and seller could do mischief of cheating the other, ebay or any other merchant should act responsibly in restricting such frauds and flush them from the system as soon as possible.

[c153niyam]

thank u prashant for the clarification. BuT if im not mistaken i am sure if u do a chargeback etc. your account will be suspended.
Atleast in USA with paypal it sure does get suspended (for 6 months i think) i have heard. not sure though

[mobile-phones-etc]

@pranshudubey,
do not worry about honest sellers, charge back can always be reverted if i provide a legitimate proof of delivery to your registered address.

Card issuing companies (banks) do not process charge backs before doing proper investigation following are the steps included int he charge back:

1) You file a charge bank in writing.
2) Banks receives the charge back form and submits it with the merchant (processor in India) and asks for proof of delivery (not proof of dispatch). At this point the issuer gives you are temporary credit and put a temp. debit on merchant.
3) merchant forwards it to the charging company to investigate. at this stage merchant puts a temporary debit on company's account.
4) charging company (eBay/Paisapay) forwards it further to the seller and demands proof of delivery in max 48 hours.
5) seller unable to provide proof of delivery, eBay honors the charge back. and if seller is able to provide Proof of delivery and it shows customers signature, it rejects the claim and forwards it to the merchant.
6) same amount is deducted from sellers remittance cycle. and so on.

Whole process used to take around 60 days before February 2010. But after the circulation notice of RBI in Feb 2010 the process needs to end maximum in 30 calender days and 22 business days. buy genuine mobiles at unbeatable price.
http://stores.shop.ebay.in/Mobile-Phones-ETC

Change is state of mind..but inevitable.