community jury is 51% fake

[atscruise]

yes dis communtiy court is 51% fake.

is always reverts backa negative reply to der dear sellers with exactly 51% votes.

i had bought an Nokia Bh214 bluetooth head set with ITEMnO. 180535309185. which was delivered by ONESTOPJUPITER .i found headfone fake and gave the due feadback OF negative.

and den the big EBAY_DRAMA started. i had specifically writen in my comments dat the headfone is fake and even gave proffs.i m still willing to give an AFFIDAVIT over dat.but wat dis sellers very own community court has done is joke. de haven't relied to my comments and simply gave pass to that fraud ONESTOPJUPITER

my only intension for the feeadback dat i had given was to make new buyer of that product to be aware of of the Discrepancies in the product delivered.i never said that ONESTOPjUPITER BE BLOCKED OR PENALIZED.

i think ill be going to Consumer court now.ILL drag dis evil practice of Ebay to SAVE der fraud sellers just to make few more bucks by cheating innocent and negligent consumers.

Ebay is befooling consumers in the anme of OEM products and citing the reason for the product to be not similar to the one in market as , "its imported from some other country. there they have dis model dat we have provide"

u morons

[e-next-store]

Dear ratan.trade and anandxyz

I Respect views from both of you and i also thinks that community court is not always fair but do you think any court is ? We know about our police and we know about our high and Supreme Courts but we still go to them when ever we need to and we know that guys with money and high profile criminals will never go to jail.I think Feedback is like Police Coz sellers do fear for it and community court is like any other court where they can get free sometimes by manipulating the facts but do you think community court is not required ? I think there are many bad buyers as sellers who do blackmail sellers for feedback.As all buyers are not cheat and blackmailer s i think its same with the sellers.There are many good sellers on ebay as well who we trust and buy things from.If some bad buyers blackmails them and leaves a negative feedback than where should that seller go ? I dont think ebay helps them with anything over there as they are busy making there own money and they dont care about any seller.Please Dont think just one way

[anandxyz]

i never said that all seller are bad i know many good sellers i bought many high price item from them and never faced problem because of those good sellers i am still buying from ebay few are bad and and those bad seller should not be allowed on ebay that's my point 🙂

[ratan.trade]

@yashjagait:

You may be right in your arguments and views irrespective of my posts in this thread.

In any of my post in this thread, I wasn’t at all judgmental for anyone, either Sellers or Buyers or Jury members of Community court. Your conclusion are not relevant for my posts of this thread. Infect, I wasn’t referred seller(s) any where in my post. My argument was related to eBay Court, eBay team and –VE feedbacks without my conclusion.

In my last post, I had referred @berrynxt4u’s statement that
"As primary rule of Democracy is "Innocent until proven Guilty"."

Absolutely True, How can I say sellers were guilty? Because, most of the cases eBay Court’s judgments favored to sellers and buyers –VE feedbacks were removed. Hence buyers were guilty! This is a sample and straight conclusion without my endorsement. Is this rule of democracy?

With reference to views or arguments in my last post, I said as hereunder:

1. No of removed -VE feedbacks should be displayed in respective member account.

2. In my sole case, the two bodies of the eBay (a) eBay Security Team and (b) eBay Court judgment or decision was not same. eBay Security team was proven Seller was guilty and refunded the money, in other hand eBay Court proven Buyer was guilty and removed –VE feedback. Nowhere was I in judgmental state that sellers are bad etc …..?

Indeed I was descried the event for readers to judge and conclude. However, Once again the event transcript is below for readers to conclude their own:

eBay team had passed an order in my favor stating that "Seller is abusing the trade process". But eBay Court was removed my -VE feedback with title % in favor of seller. Later date, I got the refund from eBay, the DD with eBay's coving note.

I think the whole process was contradictory among both the eBay bodies. The eBay Security Team view was different from eBay Court.

Conclude the entire case and think once again, eBay Court was fair???

My points are crystal clear,
1. eBay Court has to find out way to convince both the community that judgment of this court is fair not partial.

2. Juries of eBay Court are only Juries, neither seller(s) nor buyer(s) during judgment, even though they belong to these communities.

3. In any case, the argument of both parties and reason of judgment should be open to both the parties.

As you have referred the process of Indian court in your argument. Please note whatever the judgment passed by the Indian Court, the judgment remains open for all. Fair, if the eBay court will adopt this practice.

Endnote: Have I alleged sellers anywhere in any of my post in this thread? Seller was not at all the part of my debate in this thread. I don’t know about internal formulation of eBay Court and their functional modality, but the outcomes and presentation of this court were controversial in past. It is quite oblivious; Juries being the sole elements of eBay court are the part of such controversial debate. Indeed debate will continue like this, as long as the judgments of this court remain partial to the understanding of readers.

At last, I resist myself from for conclusion. RATAN.TRADE

[and-also]

@anandxyz, see your good sellers, can be bad sellers for other buyers, as each experience is deal specific, and sellers want to keep intact the same experience to all buyers.

there are various reasons why the same kind of experience cannot be given to all buyers

1)Buyer expectation is normal then common benchmark level, such buyers are having very high expectations, and expect moon out of every low value purchase, once upon a time they do get it from some sellers, but always its not possible, as they then benchmark everybody for a once in a bluemoon experience.

2)Courier is the biggest asset and liability in this form of business, sometimes due to change in geographical location same courier which offers overnite delivery to one location will be very bad to other location, and vicecersa, so choice of couriers due to geographical locations also makes the difference in experience of buyers, sometimes they get faster deliverys from unknown couriers or speed post, and the same courier like bluedart wellknown for all locations is unable to perform in other areas.Which the seller really has no full control over, thus buyer experiences varies, and he categorises based on courier experience , the seller to be good or bad.

3)Mostly all items are checked and dispatched by all sellers, but electronic goods, have a mind of their own, so the same stuff which works good for 100 of other customers, might be the one giving you problem at the first instance, so eventhough the seller is good for the 100 of other buyers, he might be bad for you, because of the first bad experience.

4)Now there might be different approach of various sellers, to various buyers, depending upon how buyers approach them for their own grievances, Sometimes some buyers start on a wrong note, and sellers are really irked off, and then donot entertain much such buyers, we do have buyers who on the second day after purchase THREATEN US WITH A NEGATIVE FEEDBACK, and then there are some buyers who buy an A QUALITY BATTERY LISTED FOR 319rs and ask us to give QUALITY OF THE ORIGINAL BATTERY WHICH WE HAVE LISTED FOR 900rs. OTHERWISE THREATEN US FOR -VE FEEDBACK.

90 percent buyers, are going to go out of town just after purchase, thus they want overnite deliveries or -ve feedback, then 5 percent buyers never read the item description for a proper written BROWN COLOURED POUCH , which they order, they put a -ve feedback that they expected a BLACK COLOR ONE.

Sometimes full a full item as described thing, like a scratch guard, for 80rs worth, buyers, do a trail mail of pages, daily taking tutorials from us., how to put the same, and if they goof up due to bad technique , THEY THREATEN US WITH -ve FEEDBACK OR give them replacment.

Now @ratan and @anand, if you think that community court should be closed down, as you are hinting indirectly with your justifications, what will happen to sellers like us,????i invite you both to one day become a seller and sit in my office and see, howmuch respect the sellers get on phone communciation from their buyers, on each and every step how much ARM TWISTING THE BUYERS do for any purchased item.

Saying is easy , for you but when one will go through it, you will understand the importance of community court.
I say 90 percent buyers which leave -ve feedback are not genuine buyers, as genuine buyers never will quarell as they will require their stuff for what they paid for or money back, and but here the buyers are WAR MONGERS, you may try anything but they will not heed, if you approach them to remove the -ve feedback, they will ask for small bribes as Free gifts.

Thus majority of -ve feedbacks in ebay india community court which come are frivolous ones, one of you must be 100 percent jury, tell me from your experiences, havent you seen such things happening,Just 5 to 10 percent are genuine -ve feedbacks.

And @ratan.trade how can you say that the court process is rigged, as it is a clear cut process in which community members are involved, no ebay interaction.

The trust and security team, helped you recover money, and not helped you reinstate your -ve feedback, which community court removed, so how can you compare something which is a civil problem which is of damages, and something as serious as DEFAMATION, which is a criminal offense, which the community court settles.

Please try to get in the sellers shoes, there is no seller Protection available on eBay, and if the community court is the only succor, that is what is keeping the system going, in proper Checks and Balances, Its law of admistration , as you seem to be well updated to all legal terms, might be knowing the verse of ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY, currently the buyers have been awarded with absolute power and entire machinery is in their favour, thus the community court balances it out,And its formed on the same community in which we are discussing, U , me and any one from this forum can become a jury, eBay is not interfering in the adjudication process atall.

[linusstudios]

@ berrynxt4u
100% Back all that you have said.

Have said in past and will say again. Buyer's get to choose sellers they want to transact with. But sellers do not have a liberty of selecting Buyers. This makes it necessary for community Court to exist.

And if you looking for elaboration look at my last 2 neutrals and 1 negative. You will understand the seriousness which some of our buyer's have when it comes to leaving feedback. It becomes no more than some survey which you fill and drop in a box outside a mall to get some Bumper Prize.

To all those buyers' who are crying wolf here, I sincerely urge them to become part of community court jury and start voting.

[ratan.trade]

@berrynxt4u: Your arguments (point 1 to 4) are correct for those are not genuine buyers.

Fine, I take you statement at par 100% correct, now for the time being, I do agree too with your statement that 90 percent buyers which leave -ve feedback are not genuine buyers and Just 5 to 10 percent are genuine -ve feedbacks.

Request you, place yourself as sole jury here; tell me your judgment from your experiences honestly in the event narrated hereunder, take the event as 100% true:

1. Buyer purchased an item on 19/07/2010.

2. Buyer sent a demand draft of purchased value through speed post as suggested by seller 24/07/2010.

3. Indian post department confirmed the delivery of demand draft to seller on 27/07/2010.

4. Buyer opened a case for non-receipt of item on 29/07/2010 upon no response from seller after vigorous follow up.

5. Seller issued acknowledgement of receipt of demand draft on 30/07/2010 as per seller’s transcript: “Yes its take time when you send us that time you have to inform us we receive today only.”

6. On 1/8/2010, the seller denied receipt of payment upon their confirmation receipt of demand draft on 30/07/2010. Transcript of seller’s statement: “we didn't receive a payment...”

7. On 01/08/2010 Seller open a UPI case after receipt of payment 0n 27/07/2010 and confirmed the receipt of payment by seller on 30/07/2010.

8. Seller again acknowledged the receipt of payment on 02/08/2010. Confirmation transcript given below:
“I got the dd but I didn't deposit in to bank if you want product so close the case that I will dispatch the product or I will resend the dd. because in description we mention that we will dispatch the product in working 4 days.”

9. After that seller continuously threatened buyer to first close the case otherwise i will not ship the item. Seller’s email transcript posing only one for review: “close the dispute first.”

10. Seller keeps on threading buyer till 6/08/2010 to close the case first. Finally buyer closed the case with my remark transcript as follow: Case Closed

“Buyer’s final Comment to seller: You are just sitting ideal to receive the payment. Note you have already acknowledged the receipt of payment on 30/07/2010 and 02/08/2010. The actual payment receipt date is 27/07/2010 as per Indian postal department conformation. Let me know the dispatch description at your eeliest and close the UPI case. Seller neither shipped the item nor refunded money. “

After that continuous follow up and reminders, seller did not response till 12/08/2010. At last buyer left –VE feedback with a remark “seller had taken payment BUT did not ship the item.”

Let me know your judgment, what should the fate of this –VE feedback.

I am leaving rest part of your post un-answered. Your judgment automatically will address rest left part of your post except one, your offer.

Be a seller for one day: Sir you know this is not possible for me to sit your place and communicate with your customers. Anyway I am also in business and handling quite voluminous investors through professionally managed infrastructure. Hence, I am well experienced from such type grievances and their difficulties and compliance, either come through directly from investors or regulatory bodies.

I will wait for your judgment being a sole Jury on the above event without modification.

Note: Bank confirmed that DD was encashed by the seller. RATAN.TRADE

[and-also]

so this is what all this is about ???? For 1 case which you also recovered Money you cannot let go off

If sellers start posting their grievances about rogue eBay buyers, the Entire forum page will fall short.

1)Daily threatenings for -ve feedbacks, Common lines "Please ship it now only or i will be forced to give you worst comment and -ve feedback."

2)On replacements buyers have till date never returned the goods which they were supposed to return, thus we have stopped doing GOOD FAITH REPLACEMNTS, have got lot of buyers, who crib not happy with quality of goods and we send them replacments acting on good faith that they wil return us the PRIOR goods, which till date non on them have returned.

3)Buyers who buy goods for one time use, like unlock cards use it for unlocking iphones and return it under saying not happy with quality and start eBay guarantee claims, other buyers use Sim card cutters which are costly and they will require only once in a lifetime, and bbuy the same ,cut their cards for iPhones or iPads and return them, saying not happy with quality want full refunds , if we refuse to give refunds, they threaten with -ve feedbacks.

4)Buyers who do experimenting with stuff, like Scratch guard fixing of Mobile housing, tend to break up or mess up goods, then ask for replacments or refunds or threaten with -ve feedbacks.

If i go on..... the page will be less, we have seen all types of buyers , Some buyers buy 59rs or 75rs Free shipping goods and threaten us with -ve or neutral Feedback if BLUEDART is not used, see one of mine neutral rating for the proof of the same, On the contrary Sellers are proposing to start courts for neutral removal also, as both -ve and neutral are counted by eBay for SNP, why eBay has kept two tools against the sellers like neutral and negative and only one Positive i fail to understand.

Even though most of our goods are free shipping 99 percent , but buyers in Marking DSR ratings for Shipping time , even then put 1 and 2 points, against the same, again putting the sellers in danger of SNP notices, now if all this not enough, NEW loophole we have seen in the system,

New Buyers within 48 hours are marking -ve feedbacks,if the goods are not received and marking item not received under eBay guarantee claim on the same day, when still whole 5 days are left for us to ship, and the claims adjudicator says they cannot do anything about it, and if such claims pile up, which is what we can do nothing about neither the claims adjudicator, know as PREMATURE eBay gurantee claims , the sellers acouunt may again go under SNP.

The sellers, here are heavily burdened and pitted against the system , we sell on other websites too, believe me eBay is the only place , where buyers are given unlimited powers, and if Community court was not existing, I guarantee not a single Seller on this eBay would survive for more then 3 months under this new norms of eBay guarantee claims and all.

Ratan sir, i do feel the pain of being cheated and also being treated badly, as lot of buyers have cheated us and treated us very badly too, so do empathize with you, but here buyers do harm to usin all sense on our accounts, economic losses,and also losses to our morale.With only eBay court being the only succor, its really frightening being a seller on eBay.in without any seller protection, and the entire system gunned against you.

Howsoevr i will just add ratan sir, for your 1 horrid experience, donot become selfish and start ridiculing the entire eBay Court process, its like you are gullitoning all sellers for 1 bad sellers, like hitler mass murdering jews, only becuase of some incident which he experienced in his childhood, by 1 jew who pained him.

Please have a non prejudicial view, donot let prejudice of 1 transaction affect your view of all sellers and entire system, look into the transactions which have gone well and the good sellers, which you have come acros, think positive to get positive people , and think negative to get sucked into negative world.

Donot support the false propoganda of eBay court being rigged, you are a good analytical person, tell me what loophole has the jury system got, its error free, and the best form of system , anyone has seen till date, and very fast adjudication.

If somebody howsoever is very serious about his -ve feedback, there is always recourse to the law of the land as this an ODR facility (other dispute resolution) , they can approach high courts or supreme courts for the same, for some Pyrrhic victory.

If the sellers account suspension would not have been linked with the -ve feedbacks, then sellers would have never minded if negative feedbacks, remain in their accounts, as with rediff and others, the sales donot decrease because of them, as we have seen in places like rediff, all big sellers there get around 60 -ve feedbacks per month but they do more turnover then eBay.Neither are their licenses suspended by the Trading Portal.

hope with my lengthy explanation you will understand the intricacies of the system and check and balancies in place, and not allow your past experiences to have a parochial view of the entire system.

[anandxyz]

i request buyers please come forward and express their views here about community court.

[liberal1605]

@berrynxt4u, you have a very valid argument about rogue buyers, but I guess Ebay should let the seller decide on which products Ebay should give guarantee. Giving a guarantee is a promise, if there are chances on misuse than may be such guarantees must stop.

Feedback is a voice of the customer, and in my opinion reversing it should not be an option as removing the feedback discredits the entire rating system.

A judged negative feedback may not be counted in sellers rating calculations and be marked as judged in sellers favour with explanation. As a buyer I would like to read such feedbacks and make my own mind.

Customer feedbacks are very valuable for my purchase decision, but the possibility of customer feedback being removed is very unsettling and makes purchases a EBAY risky.

[linusstudios]

Hello everyone,
I have a suggestion.

Like we sellers have to wait for 7 days for closing Unpaid item case.

Similarly buyers should be made to wait for at least 7 days before leaving a negative or neutral after contacting seller. This window should be used by sellers to resolve problems of buyer.

This will further combine- UPI, SNAD and eBAy guarantee program with feedback system.

And if this step is implemented. We will have only genuine feedbacks coming. And than community court should remove only rating , but the feedback should stay. to warn other buyers.

Buyers and sellers please give your views on this suggestion.