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Very lucrative opportunity for fraudsters
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on โ08-10-2006 09:39 AM
After buying so many items at ebay(see my feedback score),
I had a very firm belief that this is the best trading platform;
ebay does a very good job.
Alas! So wrong I was!
I just cheated by a fraudster very easily thru ebay for a big
amount. And I am almost certain that my money is lost.
ebay won't help!
This is the story:
I was looking for a good condition laptop; after a few searches
found a deal for which so many users were bidding. It was
indeed a good deal. The seller's id : jorden_technologies
I won the bid on 25th Sept 06 and proceeded to payment.
Payment options in the listing were Cheque and DD. So I thought
I will send the DD. I selected Pay by DD and proceeded and
surprise ...!
ebay says it does not have the seller's contact address!
I contacted the seller by email and got humble reply from seller
giving his account number with ICICI bank, bathinda. He gave his
mobile number also. I said I will pay by DD only. But he said just drop
the cheque for the amount in nearest ICICI bank ATM and he will
ship the item immediately.
He kept calling every day untill I made the payment on 30th Sept 06.
I didn't doubt the seller till then.
I didn't get any reply from seller till 4th october. So I called him and
told that I have transferred the amount; did you sent the laptop?
He humbly said: I will be sending it tomorrow(5th oct). Again, I
called on 5th and he said 'there is some problem with the charger. I
will get a replacement and will send the item definitely today'.
On the same day (5th oct 06) I got a message from a fellow ebayer that
jorden_technologies is a fraudster. But there was no further
information in the message. I got alarmed ! money is already transferred. I have to
get the money back! I called the seller; told him to return the
money as the item is not in the said condition. He ensured that he will
either send the laptop or will return money the next day.
on 6th also I called him. He again repeated that by evening the item will be sent
or will return the money. I called him again in the evening. Phone is switched off!
and the phone is not reachable till now, today 7th Oct.
I thought OK, ebay is a safe place. After all, I had so many transactions at ebay.
I should be able to do something to get my money back. ebay is not a place for
fraudsters.
Again, I was wrong!
I launched the dispute. Now I have to wait 10 day to escalate!
I just searched around the forum and found that I was not alone.
The same fraudster is playing the same game with many other users. From the
forum posts, this is the modus operandi:
1. Create a new user ID at ebay.in, don't give contact address.
2. Create a listing for laptop with very genuine descriptions. It is easy; copy paste
from completed bids and put genuine-looking photos of laptop.
3. Payment method should be DD/cheque only; may be that is the default.
4. Once bidding is complete, ask the buyer to transfer the money to your account.
5. Once money is received, throw away the SIM card in the mobile, ebay id
and the email address. Congrats! you have made some good money.
Now repeat the same process with another ebay id, mobile no and email address.
There are extra smart ways for making additional money(offer better deals to the bidders
before the bidding closes. some of the bidders will fall prey to this also)
By the time ebay reaches its 10 day time, you can make very good money.
There are so many ebay users still trusting ebay system. Even after 10 days I dont think
ebay is going to create any trouble. Fraudsters, continue your business!
There are many forum posts complaining about this problem
see
http://forums.ebay.in/thread.jspa?threadID=600001159&tstart=0&mod=1159243987402
this time the avatar of the fraudster is: panther solutions from kolkata
It is the same fraudster.
This forum post is made on 19th sept 06. If ebay had taken any actions based
on this post, the fraudster would not have cheated me.
Ah! yes, ebay had replied this post: "I am sorry to hear about your experience.
open a Item Not received dispute agasint the seller" wonderful!
and then?
More cases from forum:
http://forums.ebay.in/thread.jspa?threadID=600000900&tstart=0&mod=1152970469480
http://forums.ebay.in/thread.jspa?threadID=600001172&tstart=0&mod=1160192996207
http://forums.ebay.in/thread.jspa?threadID=600001047&tstart=0&mod=1160192357430
http://forums.ebay.in/thread.jspa?threadID=600001182&tstart=0&mod=1159591410894
My questions:
Why did ebay allow the seller to list a high value item without even without
the contact information?
Why don't you have a better dispute resolution system?
Why don't you take stronger action against these fraudsters? and in turn help
the fraudsters continue their business?
Why dont ebay get help from the Police and trace these fraudsters? For ebay
it should be very easy. The account numbers and Phone numbers of
the fraudsters are readily available.
Summary of info:
Seller: jorden_technologies
ItemID: 300029260163
Account infos of the seller:
1. HDFC Bank A/c Information is given below: -
Name of the Bankers: HDFC - Bathinda
A/c No: 1871070023149
Name : Pardeep Kumar
2.Name of the bankers: ICICI Branch: Bathinda
A/c No: 016301537188 Name: Pardeep Singh
Seller's Mobile no: 9914159511
I had a very firm belief that this is the best trading platform;
ebay does a very good job.
Alas! So wrong I was!
I just cheated by a fraudster very easily thru ebay for a big
amount. And I am almost certain that my money is lost.
ebay won't help!
This is the story:
I was looking for a good condition laptop; after a few searches
found a deal for which so many users were bidding. It was
indeed a good deal. The seller's id : jorden_technologies
I won the bid on 25th Sept 06 and proceeded to payment.
Payment options in the listing were Cheque and DD. So I thought
I will send the DD. I selected Pay by DD and proceeded and
surprise ...!
ebay says it does not have the seller's contact address!
I contacted the seller by email and got humble reply from seller
giving his account number with ICICI bank, bathinda. He gave his
mobile number also. I said I will pay by DD only. But he said just drop
the cheque for the amount in nearest ICICI bank ATM and he will
ship the item immediately.
He kept calling every day untill I made the payment on 30th Sept 06.
I didn't doubt the seller till then.
I didn't get any reply from seller till 4th october. So I called him and
told that I have transferred the amount; did you sent the laptop?
He humbly said: I will be sending it tomorrow(5th oct). Again, I
called on 5th and he said 'there is some problem with the charger. I
will get a replacement and will send the item definitely today'.
On the same day (5th oct 06) I got a message from a fellow ebayer that
jorden_technologies is a fraudster. But there was no further
information in the message. I got alarmed ! money is already transferred. I have to
get the money back! I called the seller; told him to return the
money as the item is not in the said condition. He ensured that he will
either send the laptop or will return money the next day.
on 6th also I called him. He again repeated that by evening the item will be sent
or will return the money. I called him again in the evening. Phone is switched off!
and the phone is not reachable till now, today 7th Oct.
I thought OK, ebay is a safe place. After all, I had so many transactions at ebay.
I should be able to do something to get my money back. ebay is not a place for
fraudsters.
Again, I was wrong!
I launched the dispute. Now I have to wait 10 day to escalate!
I just searched around the forum and found that I was not alone.
The same fraudster is playing the same game with many other users. From the
forum posts, this is the modus operandi:
1. Create a new user ID at ebay.in, don't give contact address.
2. Create a listing for laptop with very genuine descriptions. It is easy; copy paste
from completed bids and put genuine-looking photos of laptop.
3. Payment method should be DD/cheque only; may be that is the default.
4. Once bidding is complete, ask the buyer to transfer the money to your account.
5. Once money is received, throw away the SIM card in the mobile, ebay id
and the email address. Congrats! you have made some good money.
Now repeat the same process with another ebay id, mobile no and email address.
There are extra smart ways for making additional money(offer better deals to the bidders
before the bidding closes. some of the bidders will fall prey to this also)
By the time ebay reaches its 10 day time, you can make very good money.
There are so many ebay users still trusting ebay system. Even after 10 days I dont think
ebay is going to create any trouble. Fraudsters, continue your business!
There are many forum posts complaining about this problem
see
http://forums.ebay.in/thread.jspa?threadID=600001159&tstart=0&mod=1159243987402
this time the avatar of the fraudster is: panther solutions from kolkata
It is the same fraudster.
This forum post is made on 19th sept 06. If ebay had taken any actions based
on this post, the fraudster would not have cheated me.
Ah! yes, ebay had replied this post: "I am sorry to hear about your experience.
open a Item Not received dispute agasint the seller" wonderful!
and then?
More cases from forum:
http://forums.ebay.in/thread.jspa?threadID=600000900&tstart=0&mod=1152970469480
http://forums.ebay.in/thread.jspa?threadID=600001172&tstart=0&mod=1160192996207
http://forums.ebay.in/thread.jspa?threadID=600001047&tstart=0&mod=1160192357430
http://forums.ebay.in/thread.jspa?threadID=600001182&tstart=0&mod=1159591410894
My questions:
Why did ebay allow the seller to list a high value item without even without
the contact information?
Why don't you have a better dispute resolution system?
Why don't you take stronger action against these fraudsters? and in turn help
the fraudsters continue their business?
Why dont ebay get help from the Police and trace these fraudsters? For ebay
it should be very easy. The account numbers and Phone numbers of
the fraudsters are readily available.
Summary of info:
Seller: jorden_technologies
ItemID: 300029260163
Account infos of the seller:
1. HDFC Bank A/c Information is given below: -
Name of the Bankers: HDFC - Bathinda
A/c No: 1871070023149
Name : Pardeep Kumar
2.Name of the bankers: ICICI Branch: Bathinda
A/c No: 016301537188 Name: Pardeep Singh
Seller's Mobile no: 9914159511
Message 1 of 7
6 REPLIES 6
Very lucrative opportunity for fraudsters
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on โ08-10-2006 05:58 PM
Dear Mr. Prahanth,
The Seller jorden_technologies had no ratings whatsoever and still you sent him your payment first......?
The problem with Buyers from India is they are willing to buy products at super discounted rates.
So if a seller is selling a product for less than half of the market price the buyer does not think twice before sending the payment...........not once does he think why the product is costing Rs.19500 here when it costs Rs.75000 in the market.
We sell laptops on ebay which are officially imported from USA and we can sell at a 10-20% discount at the max from the Indian market price even when we are ordering in bulk..............then how come jorden_technologies can sell at so cheap.......why doesnt buyer think this...?
In the end the name of overall Genuine Laptop sellers is also spoilt because of bad apples like jorden_technologies and hence we have stepped in to curb this menace.
Please realise that you as a buyer have to make an informed purchase and buying a product from a seller who has no ratings and is selling products at less than half the market price is not the way to go about it.
Its very sad that you and other buyers have lost their hard earned money, however now the solution is that you open a thread in which you can ask all the buyers who lost their money to post their contact details so that you can get together and file a joint complaint against the seller jorden_technologies.
All of you can make a complaint to your local cyber crime cell, so that the Cyber crime unit can ask ebay to furnish the sellers ip address and he can be tracked down and booked under the cyber crime laws.
To find a cyber crime cell in your area please see the link below:
http://www.naavi.org/cl_editorial_04/cyber_Crime_ps.htm
It is very easy to track this fraud just provide his bank details also to your Cyber crime cell.
Please keep us updated also. We are willing to help in whatever way is possible so that once and for all we can remove the scum from ebay and the name of genuine sellers is not tarnished because of these scums.If all of you who have been cheated make the decision that you want your money back then there is nothing that will come in your way.Instead of telling others how to cheat, it would be better if we would educate each other in protecting ourselves from cheats and not fall prey to buying products from cheats who lure us with rock bottom prices.
Regards,
Sarosh R B
For
Buying_Reloaded
The Seller jorden_technologies had no ratings whatsoever and still you sent him your payment first......?
The problem with Buyers from India is they are willing to buy products at super discounted rates.
So if a seller is selling a product for less than half of the market price the buyer does not think twice before sending the payment...........not once does he think why the product is costing Rs.19500 here when it costs Rs.75000 in the market.
We sell laptops on ebay which are officially imported from USA and we can sell at a 10-20% discount at the max from the Indian market price even when we are ordering in bulk..............then how come jorden_technologies can sell at so cheap.......why doesnt buyer think this...?
In the end the name of overall Genuine Laptop sellers is also spoilt because of bad apples like jorden_technologies and hence we have stepped in to curb this menace.
Please realise that you as a buyer have to make an informed purchase and buying a product from a seller who has no ratings and is selling products at less than half the market price is not the way to go about it.
Its very sad that you and other buyers have lost their hard earned money, however now the solution is that you open a thread in which you can ask all the buyers who lost their money to post their contact details so that you can get together and file a joint complaint against the seller jorden_technologies.
All of you can make a complaint to your local cyber crime cell, so that the Cyber crime unit can ask ebay to furnish the sellers ip address and he can be tracked down and booked under the cyber crime laws.
To find a cyber crime cell in your area please see the link below:
http://www.naavi.org/cl_editorial_04/cyber_Crime_ps.htm
It is very easy to track this fraud just provide his bank details also to your Cyber crime cell.
Please keep us updated also. We are willing to help in whatever way is possible so that once and for all we can remove the scum from ebay and the name of genuine sellers is not tarnished because of these scums.If all of you who have been cheated make the decision that you want your money back then there is nothing that will come in your way.Instead of telling others how to cheat, it would be better if we would educate each other in protecting ourselves from cheats and not fall prey to buying products from cheats who lure us with rock bottom prices.
Regards,
Sarosh R B
For
Buying_Reloaded
Message 2 of 7
Very lucrative opportunity for fraudsters
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on โ09-10-2006 08:51 AM
Sarosh,
Thanks for the reply and and for the link to the cyber crime cell.
I agree that it is always safer to buy from sellers who are rated high.
However, it is not that I got a 'steal deal' It is a used Item and the bid reached its current value. Most of the time, when an item is set for bid at ebay, the bid eventually reaches the value it deserves and stops there.
There were 40 bids for this item. Either myself or somebody else might have got cheated.
I was pointing out the flaws in the ebay's system and ebay's lethargic leniency towards the problem.
- after all, why did ebay allow 0 rating user to submit a high-value item?
- remember, ebay even didn't have his contact address.
Buyers can check his rating before bidding, but not the fact that ebay does not have his contact address.
- why didn't ebay take preventive actions even after many users complained about the same issue?
Excuse the sarcasm in my posting; you know how it feels when one looses his hard-earned money.
Thanks
Prasanth
Thanks for the reply and and for the link to the cyber crime cell.
I agree that it is always safer to buy from sellers who are rated high.
However, it is not that I got a 'steal deal' It is a used Item and the bid reached its current value. Most of the time, when an item is set for bid at ebay, the bid eventually reaches the value it deserves and stops there.
There were 40 bids for this item. Either myself or somebody else might have got cheated.
I was pointing out the flaws in the ebay's system and ebay's lethargic leniency towards the problem.
- after all, why did ebay allow 0 rating user to submit a high-value item?
- remember, ebay even didn't have his contact address.
Buyers can check his rating before bidding, but not the fact that ebay does not have his contact address.
- why didn't ebay take preventive actions even after many users complained about the same issue?
Excuse the sarcasm in my posting; you know how it feels when one looses his hard-earned money.
Thanks
Prasanth
Message 3 of 7
Very lucrative opportunity for fraudsters
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on โ09-10-2006 09:40 AM
Dear,
I've launched an FIR and investigeting in the matter, pl. come togather and launcha joint FIR against this person.
mahesh
I've launched an FIR and investigeting in the matter, pl. come togather and launcha joint FIR against this person.
mahesh
Message 4 of 7
Very lucrative opportunity for fraudsters
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on โ09-10-2006 12:26 PM
Dear Prashanth,
You are right, ebay should also step in and at least display the users ip address so that he knows he is being tracked.
However every new registered user is without any ratings and when we started even we did not have any ratings.
But when it comes to protecting your hard earned money, it is you who has to take a stand.By this I mean even if price was not rockbottom and product was advertised as used, you could have averted the loss if you would have told the seller that you had a friend(even if u did not have one) in his city who would inspect the product and pick it up from him.The sellers response to this would have given you an idea whether he is really genuine or not.If he was genuine h wuldnt mind and if not he would make excuses.We understand that for such High Value items, COD is not possible and even we do not provide the same, However if seller is not providing "Buyer Picks Up and Pays" payment method then there is something really fishy about him.....
At least now that such a crime has taken place, I request you to please join hands with other people who have been cheated and get the culprit nabbed.For a start you could send your contact no. to s_m1970 via the ebay mesaging system and both of you could together find more people who have been cheated and file a joint complaint.
I know....some people will say why do all the hassle.....?But its important so that this does not happen in future and a precedent has to be formed which will warn such people.Just imagine we have a post saying that Fraud nabbed by cyber crime cell......after cheated buyers got together and took action.It will be a big warning for cheats on ebay.
Regards,
Sarosh R B
For
Buying_Reloaded
You are right, ebay should also step in and at least display the users ip address so that he knows he is being tracked.
However every new registered user is without any ratings and when we started even we did not have any ratings.
But when it comes to protecting your hard earned money, it is you who has to take a stand.By this I mean even if price was not rockbottom and product was advertised as used, you could have averted the loss if you would have told the seller that you had a friend(even if u did not have one) in his city who would inspect the product and pick it up from him.The sellers response to this would have given you an idea whether he is really genuine or not.If he was genuine h wuldnt mind and if not he would make excuses.We understand that for such High Value items, COD is not possible and even we do not provide the same, However if seller is not providing "Buyer Picks Up and Pays" payment method then there is something really fishy about him.....
At least now that such a crime has taken place, I request you to please join hands with other people who have been cheated and get the culprit nabbed.For a start you could send your contact no. to s_m1970 via the ebay mesaging system and both of you could together find more people who have been cheated and file a joint complaint.
I know....some people will say why do all the hassle.....?But its important so that this does not happen in future and a precedent has to be formed which will warn such people.Just imagine we have a post saying that Fraud nabbed by cyber crime cell......after cheated buyers got together and took action.It will be a big warning for cheats on ebay.
Regards,
Sarosh R B
For
Buying_Reloaded
Message 5 of 7
Very lucrative opportunity for fraudsters
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on โ13-10-2006 07:07 AM
another fraud--
why do you find that many times, items listed for rs 1, have delivery charges of 250 rs, where as items sold for 350 rs have a delivery charge of rs 50!
why do you find that many times, items listed for rs 1, have delivery charges of 250 rs, where as items sold for 350 rs have a delivery charge of rs 50!
Message 6 of 7
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on โ02-11-2006 09:20 AM
Updates:
I got an email from the seller that goes like this:
-----Start of Email------
From: Jorden Technologies
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 6:41:55 PM
Subject: Re: Return my money immediately
Dear Sir
We are not a fraud... we are in a very big trouble ... mr pardeep was arrasted by police. we will refund ur payment with in a few days .. kindly allow us few days to return ur money..
regards
--------------End of email------------
Not sure whether the fraudster was really arrested by the police. But I didn't receive the money back. I sent a follow up email. and received the following reply:
-----Start of Email-----------
From: Jorden Technologies
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:51:08 AM
Subject: Re: Return my money immediately
Dear Sir
Very soon u will get ut payment back with intrest. Please try to understand our problem. when ever mr pardeep will bail out he will return ur money on the same day.
Regards
--------------End of email------------
I still didn't receive the money.
I am confused as to what step to take next:
-follow up with the fraudster?
-file an ebay claim? (ebay will give at most Rs.9950 only and claim will disable my right to sue against ebay. Rs Rs.9950 does not compensate even half of my loss.)
-sue ebay, probably at customer court
what do you think?
-Prasanth
I got an email from the seller that goes like this:
-----Start of Email------
From: Jorden Technologies
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 6:41:55 PM
Subject: Re: Return my money immediately
Dear Sir
We are not a fraud... we are in a very big trouble ... mr pardeep was arrasted by police. we will refund ur payment with in a few days .. kindly allow us few days to return ur money..
regards
--------------End of email------------
Not sure whether the fraudster was really arrested by the police. But I didn't receive the money back. I sent a follow up email. and received the following reply:
-----Start of Email-----------
From: Jorden Technologies
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:51:08 AM
Subject: Re: Return my money immediately
Dear Sir
Very soon u will get ut payment back with intrest. Please try to understand our problem. when ever mr pardeep will bail out he will return ur money on the same day.
Regards
--------------End of email------------
I still didn't receive the money.
I am confused as to what step to take next:
-follow up with the fraudster?
-file an ebay claim? (ebay will give at most Rs.9950 only and claim will disable my right to sue against ebay. Rs Rs.9950 does not compensate even half of my loss.)
-sue ebay, probably at customer court
what do you think?
-Prasanth
Message 7 of 7
